A PROPHET'S DILEMMA

Ok. Here we go. I am sharing with you my current life dilemma.

IF i am convinced that "good is the mortal enemy of great" (and i am!) and If my heart does not stop telling me that "CAWKI (Church As We Know It) hinders CAGWI (Church As God Wants It)" (and it does not!)... THEN i have to challenge CAWKI to stop and cry for help.  In fact i am doing this.

NOW - having deconstructed "second class Christianity" (or whatever disrespectful terms i have to use) - i am rightfully challenged to present "the new", the "better", the "improved", "CAGWI". I have pointed to current milestones of revelation that i perceive to lead the way, to where i feel "is ahead".

YET - i have not entered into doing of the new things. Noone looking at me can "see" the new, only "hear" about it. Makes me feel sympathetic to John the Baptist who, seeing the Kingdom of God, could not enter it (Mt. 11:11)...

CONSEQUENTLY - (good!) friends keep challenging me to stop decrying CAWKI for all the GOOD that it does and that (admittedly) I am NOT doing: Sunday school, youth groups, evangelistic campaigns, Bible teaching, you name it... (and every out-of-church Christian with kids knows EXACTLY what i mean.)

SO - since time is passing (even in these deserts) and deep in my heart i feel serious doubts grow whether in all of my life i will "bring fruit" again (or: at all), AND since i am painfully realising that i am obviously NOT "the one" able to usher in a new dawn for  this most beloved entity we call church... the question as to whether it is really good to be bound to "the best" while disengaging from "the good" in so consequent a manner as i do - is just valid.

"Then WHY are you disengaging so completely?"  i am asked. "Be part of church, invest your talents where they are needed (and you know the never ending need for church volunteers) and work for a better church from the inside out!"
And i answer: I am out of the system because the whole system is corrupt (say "suboptimal"), because i care for the whole thing, and desire to see a better system, not just to improve parts of it. I am out because i believe that for me being in is destructive: destructive to a system that does not want to be disturbed (least of all "de(con)structed"); AND destructive to me, because it would occupy me with "good" and turn my focus from "great".

So - HOW am i ever hoping to bring about something of "the great" while loosing respectability with and connection to (read: influence in) "the good"?

Answer: I do not know. Only hope. And sometimes i need to cry out the whole dilemma into the blogosphere, in order not to completely loose the rest of what hope has stayed with me until now. It definitely is diminishing...

(thanks for listening to this lengthy personal post! feedback welcome. you do not need to be polite.)

Comments

[David Zachry]

I sympathize with your dilemma and this a topic I come back to often in my own life. Seeing the imperfections of the "Western" church and desiring to get back to the basics of what I believe the Bible demonstrates as how the church should be today. I would agree that something needs to happen and change otherwise the church is nothing more than another service or product that can be consumed.

But something in my spirit tells me divorcing myself completely from any church body, imperfect or not, is not the answer. I think the Bible is very clear about forsaking the chuch body as some were in the habit of doing. Also, with all the right (or great) things the church(es) of Acts / New Testament were doing, it is very evident that there was a lot of messing up and imperfection going around. Thus we are blessed to have Paul's letters to those churches. :)

What I am challenged with is "what I am doing?" to be the part of the body that God has planned? Recently, I read a book about the lost practice of true Biblical discipleship (something of which I've never done or gone through). It challenges the believer to start becoming a disciple maker by personally investing their lives in others. Not to wait for the church to charge them with this, but to start doing it personally.

I am coming to terms with the fact that if I am going to be all that God wants of me, I have to do it. I cannot wait for the church to change first. I have to demonstrate it, live it, share it, and just do it.

I feel that there is a danger in too much complaining about the state of the church and not enough doing. And I have to remember God is sovereign and will judge, correct, prune, and build His church. Does that mean we not responsible for our involvement or the state of the church? I think not, but I believe that we would do well to put our energies into prayer for the church and living a life that God commands that would be honoring of Him and His church.

Keep on seeking and praying.

[Phil Kingsley]

Feeling all of this. Tracking with you.. Asking ourselves and others the same..

Feeling the tension of travelling (too much) and "talking" about incarnational missional life when I'm pretty much distant, invisible and disengaged from the people who live in the houses on either side of me. [Ortberg: "Are you today experiencing the life you are calling others to experience?"] Ouch. There is a word that describes people who say one thing but don't live it. So on some level and in some way, maybe just one to one with a neighbor or someone I meet as I travel, I'm challenging myself to find ways to get out, listen, learn, ask questions, and engage for the Kingdom.

And yet your description of John the Baptist encourages me.. Always longing to fully experience the Kingdom life he was proclaiming.. And in a way he did..and his prophetic voice and life (joined together) drew crowds out of the cities just to hear and experience a foretaste of Kingdom of Heaven come to Earth. For a while at least.

I know of a handfull of local communities of believers in Ireland who like you have stepped away from more traditional expressions of church... But in my experience they're not leaving primarily for negative reasons. Instead it's that positive longing to see and experience and taste transformational Christianity that is drawing them into new directions.

Why not remain in the older forms?? Well I found that the maintenance of attractional church sucks up all available time, energy, resources..just to keep the program ticking over each week. The only way I could even begin to explore more incarnational and missional forms was to step away from the demands of that kind of ministry.

On the other hand..I think it's important that we try hard to bless, encourage, affirm all that God is doing in all kinds of groups. My experience is that the anger of man [i.e. mine] (frustration and sarcasm being forms of anger) does not accomplish the work of God. Ouch again.

The examples of Andrew J and Brian McClaren challenge me.. Somehow these brothers are able to be prophetic and hard-core in their critique ..and yet genuinely, recognize and express thanks, love and appreciation for all that God is doing and has done across time and history. That modelling of prophetic grace is both arresting and compelling.

[Dave]

Andi, thanks for sharing.

I feel I am in exactly the same situation you are in. I recognize so much in your doubts and questions.

I need, and so do the people around me, to come to grips with the fact that I have let go of so many of my 'old' answers and yet have not completely found the 'new' answers...

Sure; it feels much more comfortable to go back and embrace the old, but that would feel in-authentic to me.

On the other hand I recognize your struggle: should I not at least be doing some 'good' in the process?!

Blessings man, God will, in time, lead you further on your search and in the process will reveal more of Himself to you...

[Ravi Philemon]

Liked your blog...quite insightful...we are a bunch of people who live outside the box as well...check us out at http://www.lifegathering.net/ You can access our blog there as well.

[Simon]

Hello Andi,
Reading your heart's cry really blessed me. I have always felt it was a bit hypocritical teaching others about things that I have not experienced myself, and yet these days I constantly find myself speaking with friends about a way of being church that I have never experienced or even observed. It really is a dilemma, but part of speaking prophetically is speaking of things that are as yet unseen, as you say. I know that there are outposts of "CAGWI" all over the world as there always have been (sometimes even in churches that outwardly look quite "traditional"), but I can't say that I've seen it yet either. It gets uncomfortable saying "I don't know" to questions, but God is under no obligation to answer all our questions before requiring our obedience. Thanks for being so open - I'll definitely be stopping by here again.

[Romanós]

Dominique, I have not looked at the link you refer to, but only respond to your last question, "Can we do it, can we go there?"

Church as we know it will continue until the Lord returns, in the same way as any corporation that has a product to sell, and sell it they must. But we who follow Jesus can do no other. And while some of us, like myself, continue to worship in the temple and participate in those of its "ministries" that do not grieve the Holy Spirit, contradict the Word of God, or simply waste my time, we should always and everywhere, whatever the cost, simply follow Jesus, and let Him mould us as individuals and as groups into the kind of people He wants us to be.

[Dominique Pfeiffer]

Hi Andi,

I have been following your struggle on the blogosphere and you know, it is my struggle as well - even though I am part of the "good" I feel the pulling toward the "great"!

I had a crazy dream today and then I stumbled over an article about Shane Claiborne at www.jesus.de. Never heard of him before, but the article is linked on my blog. Sorry, it is in German - but this guy was in the same dilemma and he just started to do something about it. The "great" is coming...

We can't change CAWKI without doing CAGWI! But dare we to go there? Dare we to do it?

[andiwolf]

yes Sarah. being/becoming friend to our neighbors is large part of what counts for me these days, too. feels way more meaningful and alive than playing church. wish you a good place to root where you are in the States if that is where you ought to be! blessings.

[Sarah Rooney]

I completely and totally identify with everything you have articulated here. I find myself in the exact same dilemma. As Gijs mentioned, I have been encouraged by Paul's desert experience, (also by Joseph's time in the prison). When Jesus leads you out into a new spiritual place, and you can't find anyone else in that spiritual place in your geographic locality - what do you do? All I know is that I am compelled to follow Jesus where He leads me, even if it means I have no influence in old structures, and am no longer deemed credible by the Christians in CAWKI. I've even been challenged by prophetic people not to be 'isolated'. Sounds great! I would LOVE not to be isolated! But what can I do if no one around me shares my vision of CAGWI? I think the only thing that keeps me 'connected' (and not totally isolated) is the blogosphere. Thanks for being part of my church! And thanks for being honest about your dilemma. It is SUPER encouraging to me, and know that you are not alone in it.

While in Canada, we challenged CAWKI, but went largely unheard (which is fine). So we started with unbelievers. It's sometimes easier to start from scratch. When someone comes to the Lord, you just bring them into new wineskin - way easier! So we ended up with a church of four! Me, my husband and two new believers. But then we moved to Japan and then to the US.

Anyway, all that to say, like you - I don't really know either.

[Gijs]

Hi Andi,

I can relate to what you're writing. It's hard to leave the "good" and jump into... well, nothing, actually. A place where you're alone with your hope for the "better", and a few other nutcases who can't cope with the status quo...

I'm happy that God gave me some starting points after I stopped attending church services. I am dutch and felt called to the city of Utrecht, I initially wanted to do missional stuff but I sensed God told me to pray. So I prayed for the city a lot, and started praying with three friends with whom I study. I started applying some 'organic' principles, like multiplication and being led by the Holy Spirit, and now there's fifteen of us, praying every week on our faculty, building friendship, being taught by each other and by God, and struggling to make a difference in our world. It's just a seed, nothing more, but seeds can grow forests, can't they? Perhaps it's a good idea to look for those kingdom seeds, instead of being distracted by all sorts of CAWKI bricks. But perhaps I'm just rambling.

O yeah, didn't Paul (the New Testament guy) spend ten to fifteen years in 'nothingness', between his conversion from pharisee judaism to life with Jesus, and his world shaking ministry? Call it preparation time, desert experience, detox, or whatever. I believe that time of being shaped and taught allowed Paul to build Gods church like nobody did, but it must have been a frustrating experience for him, leaving his spiritual zeal behind him and just sitting around without bearing any fruit for years and years and years.

Btw, I like your blog and a lot of the stuff you're writing. It's good stuff, or should I say better stuff? ;-) Greeting and blessing from the Netherlands,

Gijs

[pilgrim]

Hello Andi

I found your blog through my dear friend Romanós. Your english is great, I can really understand you well (beinging an American). Anyways, I just wanted to encourage you...if I can.

Church has two sides to it. The Visible Church and the Invisible Church. The Visible Church is the physical aspect of what is better known as Christendom. But the Invisible Church is within both, a smaller, yet stronger body. The Invisible Church is where freedom is. It is not restricted by anything, for Christ is always with it, always with His servants. The Invisible Church is the True Church, those who have past from death to life and who have the seal of the Holy Spirit. The Invisible Church is spread throughout Christendom, though at times it is hard to find, yet it is there. The Invisible Church is what will be caught up to meet the resurrected saints and Messiah in the air.

The Visible Church though, is concerned with politics. The Visible Church is concerned with media coverage, with making a name for itself. The Visible Church is always looking for a better way, always in a state of analysis, always looking to grow bigger and bigger. The Visible Church worships itself most of the time, hording treasure and wealth, making itself into a Kingdom, eventually becoming what the Vatican and the Imperial church was and is. The Visible Church is almost always focused on itself. The Visible Church is concerned with what the world thinks of it, with what other beliefs and faiths think about it. The Visible Church paints itself up, like a whore, and like a whore it prostitutes itself out to the kings and princes and falsehoods of the world. But it does not realize that it is pitiful, poor, blind and naked. The Visible Church, once the Invisible Church is taken out of it, will become one with Mystery Babylon. As that Harlot, she will ride the Beast, only to be betrayed in the end.

But, the Invisible Church is small, meek and some would say, weak. The Invisible Church is concerned with the Spiritual, with Truth. The Invisible Church serves in the true sense. The Invisible Church does not commit adultery with the world system or the devil. The Invisible Church is renewed day by day. The Invisible Church always gives its light, is patient, waiting for the commands of the Bridegroom. The Invisible Church becomes visible at many times. It becomes visible within the Visible Church. The Visible Church usually hates the Invisible Church. The Visible Church sheds the blood of the Invisible Church. The Invisible Church becomes visible at martyrdom. Whenever a witness gives up their life for Christ, for the Living One, the Invisible Church becomes visible. The Invisible Church spreads the gospel, the good news. The Invisible Church lets the Master give the increase, it does not worry about numbers or profit or size. The Invisible Church is the Bride of Christ, of Messiah. He indwells her and empowers her to finish His work and will come for her in due time, when the full number of Gentiles come in. Then Christ and the Invisible Church will be together forever. The Invisible Church and the Visible Church; they mix at times and are often in the same room together. But it will not last forever.

I encourage you to read about the Seven Churches in Revelation Andi. And read about Christ's parables concerning the mystery of the Kingdom in Matthew. The Kingdom has many aspects to it. After the leaders of Israel rejected Messiah, things changed. The Kingdom that was at hand, that The Baptizer pronounced, was rejected. The Mystery Kingdom thus began, and you with that Christ changed how He delt with those outside the Kingdom, but He began teaching and preparing His disciples for their new work which would constitute as The Church, a body consisting of only Jews at first, then later on Gentiles, as Paul was the Apostle to us. This Church would be Body of Christ, another mystery, and also His Bride, yet another mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. Since Israel rejected the Messiah, they where broken off, and us wild branches (the Gentiles or Nations) were grafted in. Yet Israel will be grafted in again, soon if the Gentiles turn away from faith and begin boasting over the Natural Branches. This is all according to God's plan. Do not fret too much. The time is close. Be vigilant and stand for the Truth. If you listen carefully, you just might hear the footsteps of Mashiach.

[Romanós]

Andreas mou agapitos,
This is not an emotional outburst, but I want to extend my hand to you in the Spirit and with a handshake that goes right to the heart, as an encouragement and a congratulation, because you are very near to the Kingdom. I wish I could just hop a plane and come over to Magdeburg right now, to pray with you and give you encouragement in person, and to tell you how proud I am of you in Christ, and how thankful to God that He has shown you these things. The work is Christ's, not ours, but we can follow Him into the world, He wants us with Him there. As for churches and their needs for volunteers, we know where that alley leads. Even I, who bragged (with tongue in cheek) of not missing a Sunday service without cause, even I feel what you are feeling and know what you know. There is no one worthy of our total commitment and faithfulness except God, and God in Jesus Christ, the Living One. I give commitment and I am faithful, with reservations, to everyone and everything else, and to them only through Him.

My words are not coming out of a Chinese fortune cookie, but I know of a certainty, brother, adelphos mou, that He Who Is, Christ our God, has His hand on your life for a purpose and reason beyond what we can know in detail at present. I have complete confidence in you in Christ, in Y'shua ha-Mashiach. I will write again, after more thought about what you wrote and what I read between the lines. Until later, go with God, my brother! He has called you and He will not abandon you.